<html>
<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>design meeting 2021-02-17 · t-lang · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/index.html">t-lang</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html">design meeting 2021-02-17</a></h3>

<hr>

<base href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com">

<head><link href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/style.css" rel="stylesheet"></head>

<a name="225884775"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/225884775" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#225884775">(Feb 10 2021 at 18:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hey <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I believe on <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/issues/79">https://github.com/rust-lang/lang-team/issues/79</a> you were going to sync with Florian to get a more detailed agenda - I just wanted to put a reminder here and also am going to make a note in the action items doc</p>



<a name="225901461"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/225901461" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#225901461">(Feb 10 2021 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, I talked to Florian some today</p>



<a name="226338406"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226338406" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226338406">(Feb 15 2021 at 02:06)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> hey, wanted to check in on this - mostly wondering if there's reading material or otherwise to prepare for the meeting on Wednesday. Thanks!</p>



<a name="226544759"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226544759" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226544759">(Feb 16 2021 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, so this is the <a href="https://hackmd.io/wZ9lVf1JTcWAiaM7ytTvxw?edit">preliminary agenda</a>. I would call this an 'exploratory meeting', with the goal of thinking over what a spec effort might look like. I enumerated some questions we might talk over but I think the plan is fairly open.  It's a bit late notice but I think it's ok. </p>
<p>cc <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="215333">@Florian Gilcher</span>, <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1977">@T-lang</span></p>



<a name="226573508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226573508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Julian-Wollersberger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226573508">(Feb 16 2021 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>Will the meeting be recorded and uploaded to YouTube?<br>
I'd really like to watch it afterwards :)</p>



<a name="226575074"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226575074" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226575074">(Feb 16 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="200368">@Julian-Wollersberger</span> In general, we do record and upload most meetings.</p>



<a name="226575083"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226575083" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226575083">(Feb 16 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd expect this one to be.</p>



<a name="226575665"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226575665" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Julian-Wollersberger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226575665">(Feb 16 2021 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thanks! <br>
I was asking because this is an especially interesting topic, and wanted to make sure it will be recorded.</p>



<a name="226575711"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226575711" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226575711">(Feb 16 2021 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Could you share some of the specifics you're interested in about this topic?</p>



<a name="226575730"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226575730" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226575730">(Feb 16 2021 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Might help inform some of the discussion.</p>



<a name="226576885"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226576885" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Julian-Wollersberger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226576885">(Feb 16 2021 at 21:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's mostly that I'm hyped about the possibilities of Rust being adopted in safety-critical system, or other areas where correctness is really important.<br>
I don't have much to say myself, that's why I want to just watch it.</p>



<a name="226577492"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226577492" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Julian-Wollersberger <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226577492">(Feb 16 2021 at 21:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe one thing: Formal verification tools would benefit from hooking into the compiler. So making rustc modular enough to make that possible. That would also make rustc easier to understand overall.</p>



<a name="226599562"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226599562" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Nelson <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226599562">(Feb 17 2021 at 00:40)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>Formal tools would benefit from hooking into the compiler</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2020/04/09/libraryification/">http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2020/04/09/libraryification/</a></p>



<a name="226600732"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226600732" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Noah Lev <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226600732">(Feb 17 2021 at 00:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Would help with <a href="#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/cargo-callgraph">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/266220-rustdoc/topic/cargo-callgraph</a> as well</p>



<a name="226697396"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226697396" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226697396">(Feb 17 2021 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do plan to record</p>



<a name="226697661"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226697661" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226697661">(Feb 17 2021 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>is agenda reachable from Lang Team workspace in HackMD? (I’m using HackMd atop Flotato and its not trivial for me to go to a URL there.)</p>



<a name="226697669"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226697669" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226697669">(Feb 17 2021 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> ^</p>



<a name="226697739"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226697739" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226697739">(Feb 17 2021 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17/near/226697661">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>is agenda reachable from Lang Team workspace in HackMD?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(to be clear, it does not appear to be listed in that workspace that I see.)</p>



<a name="226697962"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226697962" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> pnkfelix <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226697962">(Feb 17 2021 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116083">pnkfelix</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17/near/226697661">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(I’m using HackMd atop Flotato and its not trivial for me to go to a URL there.)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>((found workaround: Made scratch note for self, pasted url there, and followed it.))</p>



<a name="226698410"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226698410" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226698410">(Feb 17 2021 at 18:01)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116083">@pnkfelix</span> I will make it available:)</p>



<a name="226725219"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725219" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725219">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't have a join link, can someone post it?</p>



<a name="226725634"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725634" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725634">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>or did I get the time wrong and it's happening some time else?</p>



<a name="226725665"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725665" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725665">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>It happened about three hours ago, sorry. :(</p>



<a name="226725679"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725679" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725679">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah lol ok</p>



<a name="226725692"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725692" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725692">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>not sure what I put into my calendar</p>



<a name="226725715"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725715" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725715">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I probably had fun with timezones</p>



<a name="226725728"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725728" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725728">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll read the hackmd then, thanks</p>



<a name="226725782"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725782" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725782">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>The lang design meeting is <time datetime="2021-02-17T18:00:00Z">2021-02-17T10:00:00-08:00</time> to <time datetime="2021-02-17T19:00:00Z">2021-02-17T11:00:00-08:00</time> every week.</p>



<a name="226725825"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725825" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725825">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Does that help?</p>



<a name="226725833"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226725833" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oli <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226725833">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>jup!</p>



<a name="226727662"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226727662" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> bjorn3 <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226727662">(Feb 17 2021 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Will it be uploaded in youtube by the way?</p>



<a name="226766128"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design%20meeting%202021-02-17/near/226766128" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Josh Triplett <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/213817-t-lang/topic/design.20meeting.202021-02-17.html#226766128">(Feb 18 2021 at 05:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Should be.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
</html>